2020-08-04 heroes meeting [20:00:25] hi everybody, and welcome to the heroes meeting! [20:00:40] good evening [20:00:47] good evening! [20:00:52] good evening [20:00:55] hello :) [20:00:56] good evening [20:01:16] hello all [20:01:31] the topics are on https://progress.opensuse.org/issues/68730 [20:01:46] does someone from the community have questions? [20:01:55] yes, me [20:02:06] ask ;-) [20:02:35] last meeting I got the AI to try to clarify the GDPR topic [20:03:07] question is: when this or next week the heroes could be available for scheduling a call with SUSE legal? [20:04:09] from SUSE legal could be possible on German business time or from 21CEST on [20:04:23] do you have specific people in mind? [20:04:32] possibly not on Friday ;) [20:04:46] I am available, preferably during business hours (8-18) [20:04:49] * cboltz would be available in the evening, 21:00 sounds good [20:04:53] cboltz, all the Heroes that should be involved with GDPR topics [20:05:38] I can do 2100 too [20:05:51] including SUSE employees? [20:06:10] goal of the call is to clarify what is required from a GDPR point of view [20:06:27] bmwiedemann1, well, yes. you are with 2 hats ;) [20:07:59] for me 2100 would work, too [20:08:26] sounds like a plan. anyone else interested to join? [20:08:26] would that include Forum admin(s)? [20:09:08] malcolmlewis, yep. all the people that are administrating openSUSE infra and that could deal with GDPR topics [20:09:35] hello. [20:10:02] can I join too? as progress admin. :) [20:10:10] * King_InuYasha waves [20:10:20] ok, just needs a date, time and go-to meeting number to call in [20:10:22] tuanpembual, :) +1 [20:10:50] time seems to be 21CEST according to what the others wrote [20:11:17] for a day? any preferences this week (or next) apart from Friday? [20:11:22] I'll join as well deneb_alpha [20:11:29] ddemaio, +1 :) [20:11:50] 19:00UTC is fine by me [20:12:03] please also provide a POTS number, I have had trouble getting my mike to work on leap/kde. [20:12:59] wed or thu is good. [20:13:00] pjessen, what about our meet.o.o.o instance? do you have issues there? [20:13:16] deneb_alpha: ah, will have to try that out. it might work. [20:13:18] I can join in [20:13:47] sorry, just arrived.... join what? [20:14:19] pjessen bmwiedemann1 malcolmlewis tuanpembual ddemaio lcp confirmed until now [20:14:29] I can do 19-21 UTC depending on the day [20:14:46] as long as it's not this Friday (since I'm giving talks at Nest during that time) [20:14:56] King_InuYasha, ok, noted [20:15:36] klein, join... a call with SUSE legal for discussing about GDPR, having shared knowledge and work together on the topic [20:15:38] I'm free after 11am EDT until 2:30pm EDT [20:16:22] (15:00 UTC to 18:30 UTC) [20:16:29] deneb_alpha: ^ [20:16:33] can I suggest you want to use UTC for all time stamps? [20:16:52] darix: I did the conversion, I'm listing both because my native timezone is what I know offhand [20:16:57] King_InuYasha, thanks for the UTC conversion and agree with darix, better to use UTC [20:17:03] deneb_alpha: I can't think in UTC :) [20:17:10] deneb_alpha: argh, I hate legal|GDPR stuff... but, it's part of the work, so, add me to the invite, I will join if possible whenever it is [20:17:12] it's safer for me to list both in-case I'm wrong [20:17:44] King_InuYasha: would you prefer a unix timestamp? ;-) [20:17:48] absolutely not :D [20:18:01] 1596565079 now [20:18:04] oh man [20:18:07] @.@ [20:18:10] * King_InuYasha dies [20:18:13] deneb_alpha, so just need a day... [20:18:49] recap confirmed: pjessen bmwiedemann1 malcolmlewis tuanpembual ddemaio lcp klein King_InuYasha [20:19:24] not that I'm too keen on this topic, but I'm afraid I'll also have to join the meeting ;-) [20:19:48] cboltz: I think we have the same feelings about this stuff haha [20:19:54] cboltz, sorry, I missed you with the copy/paste [20:19:55] what, you don't *love* legal matters? :D [20:20:44] what about Tue 11th at 19:00 UTC? [20:21:13] fine with me [20:21:52] deneb_alpha: can we push it an hour earlier? [20:22:22] please don't, I have another meeting that day an hour earlier [20:22:57] 2020-08-11 19:00 UTC that is then [20:23:42] fine with me [20:23:44] that collides for me :( [20:24:04] cboltz, this week -> 2020-08-06 19:00 UTC ? [20:24:19] deneb_alpha: that date works for me [20:24:25] yes, that would work for me [20:24:33] (August 6, that is) [20:24:47] works for me. [20:25:01] it's fine [20:25:11] fine by me [20:25:41] also fine with me [20:25:49] me as well [20:26:31] the meeting is postponed to thursday? [20:26:44] pjessen? could this week -> 2020-08-06 19:00 UTC work for you? [20:26:50] robin_listas: a different meeting [20:27:05] ah, ok [20:27:39] aug 6 is fine too. [20:28:28] deneb_alpha: yes, that works. [20:28:29] ahh this week is also fine for me [20:29:50] ok, thank you folks! do you prefer to have an email invitation or one with the jitsi link to admin@ is fine? [20:30:15] email invitation please [20:30:24] *individual email I mean [20:30:24] that way calendar reminds me :) [20:30:47] heroes@ is good enough for me - and also makes sure people not in this meeting will be aware of the meeting [20:30:51] email is fine [20:31:06] deneb_alpha: individual email would be preferred, but sending the calendar invite to admin@ works too [20:31:19] ok, email to heroes + one to King_InuYasha ;) [20:31:21] :D [20:31:39] deneb_alpha, email as well please [20:31:59] malcolmlewis, +1 [20:33:16] if no-one else has anything else to add on this, I'll give the ball back to cboltz for the rest of your meeting [20:33:24] deneb_alpha: it's probably a good idea to point legal to https://progress.opensuse.org/projects/opensuse-admin-wiki/wiki/GDPR as a preparation for the meeting [20:33:34] cboltz, already done [20:33:39] even better :-) [20:33:43] I was also sharing the minutes from last call [20:34:26] thanks again for your time folks :) [20:35:17] thanks for taking care of the legal stuff :P [20:35:39] ok, so - are there more questions from the community? [20:36:29] * deneb_alpha hides herself and apologize for the time stolen to the Heroes call [20:37:25] deneb_alpha: we'll send the invoice ;-) [20:37:25] I don't think we were planning taking care of tickets this month either anyway [20:38:13] * King_InuYasha shrugs [20:38:21] doesn't look like there are other questions from the community, so let's continue with... [20:38:25] status reports about everything [20:38:33] who has something to report? [20:38:54] would you mind me asking abou the mail server? [20:38:55] which one first matrix, tsp or mailman3 :P [20:39:20] I know that was discussed last month, but could not join then unfortunately :( [20:39:25] Redtigra: you mean our new mx[12]? [20:39:38] pjessen, yep [20:39:48] okay, that's me then. [20:40:42] basically mx[12] are both ready to be switched over. [20:41:20] I prepared them beginning of july, but decided it would not be a good idea to switch over before I went away on summer hols [20:41:55] sure. [20:42:09] do you have any timeline in mind then? [20:42:31] status from me: I found out how to generate openidc tokens, so if you got an opensuse service that needs auth, we can try it (still not confirmed fully working yet) [20:43:02] I had hoped to be ready this week, but I think that'll have to pushed at least one week. so Monday next week. will write an announcement [20:43:35] just timing issues on my part [20:44:22] bmwiedemann1: I have 2 services right now, synapse and hyperkitty [20:44:40] pjessen: great, thanks a lot. did not mean to push in any way, just askin'. [20:44:52] Redtigra: no probs. [20:45:06] pjessen: will you start with soft_bounce and mx*.suse.de as fallback for some days? [20:45:22] cboltz: maybe :-) [20:45:46] mailman 3 stuff is up and running, which you can see at http://mailman3.infra.opensuse.org, and it would probably be cool to migrate at some point [20:46:27] lcp: which list have you tested it with? [20:46:52] I have not tested it with anything outside of testing mailing lists [20:47:00] so basically it exists in the vacuum rn [20:47:13] Status update from me. About progress.I only do css implement, thanks lcp. then install agile plugin and add agile to roles config. and next todo is plugin request from okurz. [20:47:30] lcp: might be good to to do some real testing before migration :-) [20:47:47] lcp: I'd say we should switch _after_ we switched over the to mx*.opensuse.org because that makes adjusting the aliases easier (no need to change them on mx*.suse.de) [20:47:57] yeah, that's fair, although I can imagine it's gonna be quite a thing to do so [20:48:14] cboltz: definitely. [20:48:14] I was also thinking that maybe we could remove the opensuse-* prefixes when migrating ;) [20:48:16] and then switch over opensuse-test@ which is meant for testing anyway [20:48:20] lcp: yes please! [20:48:28] I know, blasphemy [20:48:31] let's get rid of the redundant and useless prefixes [20:49:09] cboltz: you mean test@opensuse.org? >:D [20:49:09] though the truly blasphemous suggestion would be factory -> devel@ [20:49:14] and then I have to adapt my procmailrc again? [20:49:31] yes [20:49:41] lcp: it's only more work, but it's up to you I would say. [20:49:45] lcp: it should be foo@lists.opensuse.org, so people know it's a list ;) [20:49:46] King_InuYasha: no, that's not happening [20:49:51] factory is way cooler of a name [20:49:54] haha [20:50:04] * cboltz wonders if we have any members called programming, announce, bugs etc ;-) - removing the opensuse- prefix would make clashes with member aliases more likely [20:50:20] cboltz: opensuse.org -> lists.opensuse.org would fix that [20:50:24] cboltz: well, let's do it on case by case basis then [20:50:33] cboltz: oh yes, it's not an easy change at all. [20:50:41] so opensuse-factory@opensuse.org -> factory@lists.opensuse.org [20:51:01] completely sidesteps the collision problem entirely [20:51:09] since the address is a different namespace now [20:51:16] prefixes are nice for filtering on receiving side. Or clashes. Otherwise, use a subdomain. [20:51:41] hyperkitty will do nice things for you automatically to label emails for filtering [20:51:52] even web-gmail compatible :) [20:52:14] yeah, subdomain might be a better idea after all [20:52:14] that is, it adds extra headers that you can use for filtering [20:52:15] yeah, i'm thrilled with procmail ;-) [20:52:39] X-Mailing-List is quite useful for filtering [20:52:43] yep [20:53:08] pjessen: so I will wait for mx switch then, in the meanwhile we can set up login with bmwiedemann1 and have a testing domain for the frontend side [20:53:11] what's also cool is that every message you receive from mm3/hyperkitty will also have an X-Archived-At header with exact message URL [20:53:27] very handy if I want to link a message to someone [20:54:07] lcp: sounds good [20:54:13] interesting point - what about links to the current ("old") lists.o.o? Will they stay valid? [20:54:15] lists-test.o.o would be good to have for testing, because it's a pain to work with webapps without ssl ;) [20:54:16] blech, it's Archived-At, (no X- prefix) [20:54:27] cboltz: nope [20:54:29] cboltz: we can freeze the old lists forever since we're switching domain prefixes [20:54:41] just turn off listserv and leave them available as a static archive [20:55:01] that's true [20:55:02] that's what Fedora did when moving from mm2+pipermail to mm3+hyperkitty [20:55:07] hmm, I was hoping we would migrate the archives over too. [20:55:11] pjessen: we would [20:55:15] there would just be two copies [20:55:22] importing to mailman archives will be fairly easy, because it's just mboxes [20:55:24] King_InuYasha: ah, okay [20:55:33] the idea is to not break old links [20:55:35] I just need to write a script for that [20:55:57] well,we would break one old link >:D [20:56:03] the index [20:56:22] yeah, well, that's fine :D [20:56:27] I think that's the only semi-dynamic part [20:56:59] I know it might be old-fashioned, but I wudn't mind seeing the plan for the whole migration. [20:57:01] lcp: you and I should sit down and come up with mapping for all the lists [20:57:28] pjessen: it's not a bad thing for us to have a plan [20:57:37] pjessen: I can do that after the meeting [20:57:51] and I can set up the mailing lists on the mailman3 side even today [20:58:16] (just so we have where to migrate that is) [21:00:36] Huh, I have to get moving in a few minutes. Do you want me to comment on the progress on the nntp server? [21:01:07] sure [21:01:24] robin_listas: yes plz [21:01:51] Ok, the nntp server is running and open for testing (started, not enabled on systemd), on the forum VM [21:02:17] only has one test group accessible only inside infra. [21:03:15] I think the next step could be testing that with the gateway to the webforum. I don't know how to do that part. [21:04:16] If that works, then we would need to add perhaps one 20 GB partition for the database, add the real groups, and populate them. [21:04:31] Then, follow our feet... :-) [21:05:09] that's all I have for now :-) [21:06:24] lcp: could be good to get some buy-in on the list rename from users? e.g. on opensuse-project? [21:07:15] sure [21:07:23] bmwiedemann1: +1 [21:07:25] I need coordinating with whoever handles the web-nntp gateway. [21:07:55] * King_InuYasha imagines the massive trolling that'll ensue over the post about renaming the lists [21:07:58] robin_listas: probably me [21:08:03] how should I request oidc metadata from you bmwiedemann1 [21:08:42] I hoped the forum admins would participate :-? [21:08:48] lcp: you can email me. I mostly need the service name (could be an FQDN) and 'scope' - e.g. email or profile [21:09:03] sure, I can get that to you [21:09:07] King_InuYasha: we already have some lists without the prefix. we have some lists that aren't opensuse-only as well [21:09:48] pjessen: that never stopped anybody :P [21:09:54] King_InuYasha: and bike-shedding - if someone things about renaming factory to devel then someone else might propose project->meta or whatever [21:10:00] King_InuYasha: quite so :-) [21:10:35] pjessen: we can do multiple domains in mailman3, so maybe we could do something about the lists that aren't openSUSE-only? [21:10:39] Ok, I have to get moving. I will read the log later. Bye [21:10:48] cya [21:10:50] lcp: that would be nice [21:11:01] e.g. uyuni [21:11:06] tbh, I would prefer migrating lists as they are and leave the renaming for later. I am a great fan of KISS. [21:11:33] from experience, I can say it's a bad idea to split up renaming [21:11:36] from migrating [21:11:49] people are usually able to deal with that stuff if it's just part of a larger shift [21:11:55] yeah, right now I can tell you it will be easier to do all in one shot [21:12:15] okay, I'll take your word for it. [21:13:49] we migrated tsp recently, from boosters.i.o.o to a new vm [21:14:04] the only thing really on boosters now is connect [21:17:27] at least the excuse "but there are other services running behind connect.o.o" is gone now :-) [21:17:59] but - to open another can of worms, maybe not to be discussed today - we still need a replacement for connect.o.o [21:18:52] that doesn't really help >:D [21:19:24] well, we do have one running >:D [21:19:34] but it depends on the login system we can't use [21:20:30] great :-/ [21:20:44] any chance we could use it with the current login system? [21:21:22] no, the current login system is a touch too limited [21:22:22] :-( [21:23:46] so - any other status reports? [21:24:40] I sent a feature request for splitting v8 libs away from nodejs, so we can use that with other packages, which gets us closer to discourse packaged properly ;) [21:24:57] and it was picked up, it's not like I sent it into the void apparently [21:26:02] :-) [21:26:07] lcp, think positive ;) [21:26:41] well, I would hope we could use that login system at some point, but that's gonna be real hard now ;) [21:29:33] I do still stand by that connect replacement though, because it is the best thing we got this far [21:29:44] I still cross my fingers to finally bring openSUSE Accounts online [21:31:10] ok, so - next topic? [21:31:25] I guess so [21:31:41] I'll change the order a bit and pick a (probably) quick topic first: [21:31:45] Forum (well any) spam reports - where to send for action [21:32:02] any idea who can/will handle blocking spammer accounts? [21:32:59] I see a new category in progress.o.o - Accounts and GDPR [21:34:31] I've already set some of out Forum reports to this... [21:34:53] out/our [21:36:32] cboltz, maybe something can be discussed on Thursday? [21:36:55] malcolmlewis, cboltz +1 [21:37:19] if nobody volunteers today, yes [21:37:54] cboltz, but the login systems is not in openSUSE infra? [21:38:16] plus spamming is not really a gdpr issue ? [21:38:20] right, we'll need someone from SUSE to handle this [21:38:56] pjessen, but if they spam progress, then wait, they can spam the forum as well... [21:39:25] we can ban at the forum, but they still have an active account elsewhere [21:39:43] malcolmlewis: anyone can spam progress.o.o unfotunately. no account required. [21:40:22] pjessen, all the more to block email in the accounts system [21:41:32] progress.o.o (especially because of mails to admin@) is somewhat special - but in general I agree that blocking spammers helps for more than the forums [21:43:04] cboltz, add as an action point on me and will see if can find out more from my SUSE contacts [21:43:11] and cboltz blocking spammers can be seen as a way to protect the infra/systems I suppose this can be an exception to logging personal data like IP [21:43:58] (I mean in the GDPR context) [21:44:17] cboltz, with the SUSE foum and vanilla, it is linked into our go to spam site for spammers and automaticall bans/removes [21:45:37] so there's basically a "post your spam here to get banned" sub-forum? ;-) [21:46:16] cboltz, a plugin, checks the account if in SFS it gets nuked and banned AFAIK [21:47:47] SFS? [21:47:58] Stop Forum Spam ;) [21:48:08] ah, ok [21:48:40] we manually add our ones [21:49:15] get banned -> get a SFS entry [21:50:29] makes sense ;-) [21:50:43] anyway, give me a few days to see if I can find out anything on the SUSE side [21:51:16] ok, thanks [21:51:22] n.p. [21:51:58] is someone awake enough for the last topic? [21:52:02] review old tickets [21:52:02] because also see a few tickets for GDPR removal request... [21:54:53] cboltz, as in no action? I have one open ticket for the forum login, waiting for feedback, but think have that resolved, unmigrated account and using existing email [21:55:34] if you think it's resolved, then mark it as such ;-) [21:55:41] cboltz: am awake, but not for long [21:55:43] in "worst" case you can reopen it [21:56:29] have been debugging mlmmj most of the afternoon, am tired. [21:57:13] cboltz, done ;) [21:57:21] sorry, need to leave. will read the rest of the log; and will meet with Gerald this week :) [21:57:34] pjessen: yes, I know it's late ;-) - and it seems to become a tradition that we skip the "old tickets" topic [21:57:50] cboltz: not a good tradition, but .... [21:58:13] at least we have a monthly reminder, and can feel bad about it ;-) [21:58:52] maybe we ought to add them to the agenda, one by one [21:59:19] that will make the agenda quite long (currently 182 open tickets, no idea how many of them qualify as "old" ;-) [21:59:24] anyway, goodnight all [21:59:32] good night! [21:59:43] ngood night [22:00:01] thanks everybody for joining the meeting! [22:02:04] :) until next time [22:03:50] thanks everyone [22:03:54] good morning [22:05:18] bye [22:05:23] :) [22:11:12] bye